Taxonomic Swap 142046 (Draft)

POWO (Citation)
Yes
Added by najera_tutor on 07 April, 2024 22:38
replaced with

Comments

This is a controversial decision--I think community support should be assessed prior to proceeding -- @choess

Posted by crothfels 2 months ago

Old swap (from E. praeltum into Equisetum hymale affine made in 2021): https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_changes/64880
Discussion here: https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/546001

This should not have been done without discussion, since the discussion linked above did not support this change.

I think it's likely this will have to be undone by an admin.

Posted by kevinfaccenda 2 months ago

Oh what a needless mess!! @radekwalkowiak
@najera_tutor likewise subjective decisions to change taxa without general agreement needs to get avoided!
Your doing so indicates to me, that you are missing essential experience to do taxon changes, so please stop it.

Posted by erwin_pteridophilos 2 months ago

This is unscientific and causes real chaos. Please remember that scientific research requires validation and general acceptance is not enough. We should wait for a number of publications that will confirm the taxonomic diagnosis. I have not yet seen genetics and molecular biology publications on this particular species in sufficient quantity and scientific quality, so I can comment on this. We have far too few publications at our disposal to be able to state categorically. Let's not follow fashion and trends, but hard science. There are definitely too few publications on this subject to disturb the taxonomic position that has been established for several decades.

Posted by radekwalkowiak 2 months ago

una disculpa, hasta donde sabía el código de nomenclatura no establece eso de las publicaciones taxonómicas para confirmar uno o unos taxones, solo pide la publicación de dichas investigaciones y en esa función vi que tenía ya tiempo esa serie de cambios que están validados en POWO, entiendo el problema que causé, mismo caso nos pasa con CACTACEAE, lo que me queda en duda es entonces en qué listado se están basando, para vincularlo con la lista de flora para el país.

Posted by najera_tutor 2 months ago

@loarie Can this please be reversed? See: https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/657696

Posted by kevinfaccenda about 2 months ago

I also advocate for a reversal of the change, the evidence provided in the referenced paper was not at all conclusive; there is no specimen from Asia included their sampling and one of the putative hybrid sampled it a cross between praeltatum and variegatum and was found in Finland! Things simply do not add up, there is nothing that suggest that E. hyemale hyemale (in the strict sense) would be monophyletic if praeltatum were to be recognized as a distinct species. More data needs to be gathered. This swap on INaturalist was prematured. POWO doesn't have all the definitive answers, it is still very much a work in progress and errors are continuously corrected, especially in taxonomic groups that are not in Sebastian Gebauer's field of expertise. POWO is not considered the definitive taxonomic resource for Pteridophytes, for example. See also flag https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/546001 @loarie

Posted by elacroix-carignan about 2 months ago

There are currently 3 flags discussing this.

https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/504709 [discussed a deviation from POWO in 2021 an not accepting E. praeltum; later discussion after this swap was made is not favorable]
https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/546001 [closed in 2021, noted that the species should not be swapped]
https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/657696 [now closed; created as E. hymale affine became a lone subspecies; advocating for not following POWO with E. praeltum]

@najera_tutor Please do not make swaps without examining the flags and previously closed flags on the taxa you are swapping!

Posted by kevinfaccenda about 1 month ago

We are reverting, but please wire up and intended deviations from POWO as taxon framework relationships
otherwise expect that curators are going to work to bring things in line with POWO as was done here
https://powo.science.kew.org/results?q=Equisetum%20hyemale%20subsp.%20affine
deviations are the signal to tell curators not to keep in sync with the reference, they're not expected to look at flags

Posted by loarie about 1 month ago

This should be pretty easy to reverse

Posted by mrostrowski about 1 month ago

is this in the process of being reversed? I'm not certain how that direct reversion works (or if it requires much more time to take effect than the original taxon change) but the taxon entry for E. praealtum evidently remains active and with observations associated.

Posted by sbrobeson about 1 month ago

@sbrobeson I just committed the swap, since it seems nearly everyone is in agreement.

Posted by mrostrowski about 1 month ago

I made a deviation - please always make a deviation if you want to signal curators not to curate in the direction of POWO https://www.inaturalist.org/taxon_framework_relationships/296868

Posted by loarie about 1 month ago

@loarie Noted; thanks for letting me know.

Posted by mrostrowski about 1 month ago

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